He claims the CIA came to him for guidance on what tactics could be used. I am convinced the truth is even more sordid. Why would the CIA come to Richard Cheney if they wanted to know what tactics they could legally use?

In the first place, Cheney is not an attorney. He flunked out of Yale. He then got a a BA and MA in political science from the University of Wyoming. He failed to complete a Doctorate at University of Wisconsin-Madison.

In the second place, the Vice-President is not in the chain-of-command for any government agency. His opinion would not hold any legal wight even if he was equipped give an opinion.

If the CIA, or any other Bush-Cheney agency, wanted to know what techniques they could use they would go to the attorneys in their own agency. The Counsel for the CIA would not want to make such a decision. The agency attorneys would then go to the Attorney General’s office for a ruling.

The Attorney General would pass the question on to the Office of Legal Counsel. The Legal Counsel would make a ruling. This would go back up the chain to the Attorney General (at the time, John Ashcroft). On such a sensitive issue the decision would then go to the White House.

At no time would the Vice-President be involved in such a decision as whether to use torture. I am convinced Dick Cheney went to the CIA, or sent one of his henchmen. He would have encouraged the CIA to use torture. OK, they would have called it enhanced interrogation. Do I believe President George W Bush was involved? Up to his eyeballs.

Cheney is trying to throw the burden of starting down the road to torture onto the CIA and the Department of Defense. Were the agencies responsible for what they did to prisoners? Yes, they were.

Dick Cheney and his ventriloquism puppet George W Bush have to be investigated for war crimes. However, it is probably going to be difficult to build a case starting from the top. The Bush administration has had eight years to hide their tracks. Start with the CIA and work up. The CIA agents and even the leadership is not going to want to be the fall guys. If a persistent prosecutor like Patrick Fitzgerald is appointed Special Prosecutor the underlings will turn state’s witness in a minute.

If the United States government is not willing to take war crimes to court then Bush, Cheney, George Tenet, and Donald Rumsfeld should be surrendered to the Hague International Court.

This would go a long way to restoring America’s standing in the world community. There are already laws on the books forbidding torture. The military has regulations forbidding torture. The only thing which allows the practice is executive orders signed by President Bush and his outlaw followers. An executive order signed by one president can be overturned by another president with the stroke of a pen.

This would not interfere with the work on economic recovery. The President Elect has plenty of attorneys working on the transition who are not involved in the economic program. As a constitutional scholar I am sure Obama could write such an order in his sleep. It probably only needs to be one paragraph long. If examples are needed they are readily available going clear back to General Washington.

Submitted by Vicky on 28/Nov/2008 in reply to On the First Day posted by John Harvey on 27/Nov/2008

What exactly is an executive order, John?

I certainly agree that we should not be torturing people. It makes a risk that our troops could be tortured, I think.

Submitted by John Harvey on 28/Nov/2008 in reply to Re: On the First Day posted by Vicky on 28/Nov/2008

An executive order is all that is needed. Congress already passed a law outlawing torture. It is Bush’s signing statement and orders issued by Bush and his cronies that allowed its use.

You are exactly right. Our practicing torture endangers any member of the armed forces who is captured. One cannot demand any better treatment
when captured than our side gives our prisoners. In fact, several war criminals, including Charles Taylor, have claimed that they are not guilty because they were just doing what George Bush authorized.

There is even proof that the Geneva Conventions work. After World War II the government studied treatment of POWs by the Germans and Japanese.
Germany and the United States had signed the treaties governing the treatment of POWs. Russia and Japan had not signed.

I do not remember the exact numbers but only about 10% of Americans captured by the Germans were mistreated or tortured. Russians captured
by the Germans had about 40% mistreated or tortured. About 60% of Americans captured by the Japanese were tortured or mistreated.

The first order forbidding torture was issues by General Washington as soon as he took command of the Continental Army. While torture has certainly been used by the United States. George W Bush is the first president to explicitly authorize it. It will be a black mark on American history as long as this country exists.